48 - Daniel Landver, Digital Brand Products

Conor Begley: I had a fantastic time with Daniel today, we talked about what it's like to launch 50 different influencer and celebrity brands that are now doing over 250 million in retail sales, as well as why there hasn't been an influencer led beer brand yet. Great idea. Remember to be a friend, tell a friend and subscribe. Enjoy the show.

Speaker 2: Influencers, inspiration and Instagram, Instagram, Instagram. This is Earned by Tribe Dynamics. Here's Conor Begley.

Conor Begley: Hi everyone, and welcome to Earned. Today we have one of the foremost experts on brand- influencer collaborations and launches, Daniel Landver. Welcome to the show Daniel.

Daniel Landver: Thank you. I'm really excited to be here and I appreciate you inviting me.

Conor Begley: And honestly, as I was putting together the questions for the show today, I got really excited because this is a topic that we've talked a lot about as a company. I think there's so much alignment and it's become so frequent for brands and influencers to collaborate, but then obviously the big- ticket item that's on the minds of all the talent is," How do I launch my own brand?" And I like, I know the surface level. I know that it's good to do, but I don't know the details. So today is going to be fun.

Daniel Landver: Yeah. Well, sometimes it's like they say, it's like a sausage factory you don't want to see what's inside, but in this case, let's look under the hood and I'll give you as much background as I can and hopefully help give some additional perspective, but it's definitely a fun thing that we're focusing on.

Conor Begley: It's fun most of the time, except when it doesn't work, then it's less fun, but that's-

Daniel Landver: Well said. Exactly.

Conor Begley: And for those that don't know, you're the CEO of Digital Brand Products, which is a division of Digital Brand Architects, I believe. Right?

Daniel Landver: Correct.

Conor Begley: And you guys have launched brands with Camila Coehlo, Patrick Starrr, Aimee Song, The Home Edit. So some pretty big names there. Yeah. So I'm excited to dive in. So just to jump right off the bat, what is the brand that you're currently most excited about that's either launched recently or is coming up to launch?

Daniel Landver: So we have a bunch of brands that we're working on, on a consistent basis. We have about 50 brands at market right now and another 15 to 20 probably launching this year. The brands at market will do about 250 million- plus in retail sales say this year alone, and every year seems hopefully are growing in terms of that volume. Tomorrow, The Home Edit is coming out with season two of their Netflix show. And we have a bunch of exciting products and initiatives for their brand, both at Walmart and of the container store. So those are really exciting collaborations or partnerships and that brand is growing really well and really proud of seeing that evolution. Patrick Starrr with OS, ONE/ SIZE FITS ALL by Patrick Starrr also had a big launch at Sephora this week. His business has been really great there, they've been great partners. His content is incredible. To anyone who hasn't seen that branch should just definitely check it out as a good reference of how to be very creative and proactive marketing your own brand. Those are two brands of retail that both have a lot of, I'll say positive momentum. In a large part because of A, the great partnerships we have with our retail partners and our manufacturing partners. And also in large part because of the hard work and initiative, the talent put into brands. It's a huge amount of work and effort to make them successful, and unique, and compelling.

Conor Begley: And that's certainly where we historically have seen the brands that do this or the influencers that do this get the most traction is when they are heavily involved in the process and deeply interested in the category, so that makes sense. The other thing that you said that's really interesting to me, so you said 250 million in retail sales, I think about 50 brands. So call it$ 5 million per brand. If I got my numbers right there. The reason that strikes me, the reason I think that's really interesting is one of the esesis I have on this space is that, say like as an artist, as a music artist, you would go out, you'd go on tour and you would have t- shirts that you would sell. And I think the reality is that becoming a creator is easier than it ever has been before and also creating products and creating new brands is easier than it ever has been before. And so for these influencers, the opportunity to create secondary streams of income that actually don't... Everybody pays attention to like Teremana or Rare Beauty or these really big breakout successes. But as a creator, if you're making an extra two, three, four, five million a year launching your own brand and all the overhead is a Shopify website, one or two internal marketing folks and you're partnering with a manufacturer to do that, that's great for these people who often have their time in the spotlight and then have a hard time monetizing over 30 or 40 years. And so it's just fascinating to think about that as a concept for me.

Daniel Landver: Yeah. And only to slightly correct you is that it's not 50 brands doing five million each. It's probably three or four brands doing 50 million- plus each. And then another 20 or 30 brands doing one to five million each. So the spectrum in terms of the revenue in terms of the volume varies dramatic, there's a lot of factors but you're right. And a million-dollar business is good. A $5 million business is also good. And of course, a $50 million business is at a little bit of a different level and everyone wants the biggest business possible, but there's a lot of smaller businesses that are really profitable, add a lot of incremental income to a creator's bottom line and or passion projects for them that they're very proud of. So there's a lot of different directions and let's say verticals and categories. And I wouldn't say it's not one size fits all. Well, it's the name of one of our brands. It's many positive solutions for many different creators.

Conor Begley: What would you say separates the $50 million brand from the $5 million or the $1 million. And a second question to that is could you have predicted it? So going in would you have been like," Oh, this one's going to be 50?" Or is it like, you're like," Whoa!" You get more surprises than you'd expect.

Daniel Landver: Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes you don't know, and it just connects with an audience and just grows exponentially. Sometimes you go into a project or a brand with a creator and you're like," This is going to be a grand slam, home run. It's a total bomb." And that's happened more than once. And there are so many ingredients in the recipe to make a business and a brand successful. So the question is, do I know what's going to happen? No. When we went into 2020 with a schedule of launches and then COVID hit, did we know that every retailer store we're launching was going to close? No, of course not. But then how do you pivot, how do you figure out a solution to bring the business to market? Is it going on a Shopify website, or going direct to a consumer, or is it still teaming up with that retailer in a different dynamic? Obviously, events weren't on the table anymore. So there's always challenges that come up. That was a big challenge and a very unexpected challenge, but there's always things that come up along the way. And really, it's not the size of the creator alone that makes a business successful. It's really a good idea that's unique and compelling. It's a creator who's really passionate and committed to that. And people who say building a brand or a product, and we use those terms, but it's really building a business, and building a business is hard. Making money in a business early on is hard. And it's really like having the fortitude and the foresight to accomplish a really challenging goal. Just because you're a creator it doesn't mean building a business is any easier. And because you've built a great business and have a significant YouTube following, or significant Instagram following, or TikTok following doesn't necessarily equate to being a great operator or a great brand on its own. It's really like taking a turn and turning a corner and using different muscles or partnering with people who help compliment those operational and capital aspects to help make a brand, or creator brand or a celebrity type brand successful.

Conor Begley: And when you're working with these creators, what per cent of that operation are you guys responsible for versus them? And I'd imagine there's some variance creator to creator and brand to brand.

Daniel Landver: That's right. So it's highly variable, different creators have different... It depends on what the product idea is, what the category is. Is it furniture? Is it beauty? Is it apparel? Is it accessories? Is it wellness? Really what is the idea and how do we execute on that idea? Some ideas maybe are relevant to... Some people like to do things themselves regardless of the category and they have the right and the ability to do that. Some people are looking for a really strong operating partner to connect with and leverage their, let's say, existing platform. And that's a really strong combination making sure that those partners gel well together and there are so many variations of that. And so many of them can work in many similar scenarios. So it really depends on that creator or their ambition, their timeline, their ability in terms of capital, in terms of time allocation towards building that brand.

Conor Begley: Yeah. That makes sense. And then from an economic perspective, and I know you probably can't get into this too much, but how does that split end up working out between you guys, the creators, the retailers, how does that negotiation split up with like...?

Daniel Landver: Yeah. So I mean, maybe a helpful way of breaking it down is the different types of partnerships or models that exist. So the word licensing is used very frequently and what a license means is that manufacturer or a retailer is taking the rights to someone else's IP, the most successful licensor by far for, I don't know, the last 50 years is Disney. Disney comes up with the IP, they have Frozen, they go to every manufacturer in every category under the sun. So they go to the number one lunchbox manufacturer and they give them the rights to the Frozen artwork. My three and a half year old daughter is obsessed with Frozen. So it's top of mind for me right now. And then of course, that manufacturer pays a royalty or a percentage of sales up to Disney. Disney's built a multi, multi- billion dollar business for many, many, many years with all of the amazing IP they develop through the licensing. So in the creator, so a celebrity world that's to method or vehicle that's commonly used. You could do a license with a retailer, they'll run the, let's say the operations, or a manufacturer, or a wholesaler another, let's say version of that is starting a business as a partnership. So there's some joint IP or some joint equity that a creator and a manufacturer or a, I call them an operator, goes into a business together. They can capitalize it together, or one, or both entities can put in the capital or they could raise capital from a third party and then build it out from, let's say a standalone independent basis. And both licensing and partnerships are just two vehicles towards building a brand. And then do we want to sell that brand to a retailer or do we want to sell direct to consumer and build a Shopify site or a site and have access directly to our audience. And there's pros and cons in every single approach, there's pros and cons in terms of the valuations and multiples going into those businesses. And it's very circumstantial but both are very productive in many cases.

Conor Begley: And I know that Disney was famous for taking a much higher percent of the licensed revenue historically, it was like eight to 12%, that was like their typical cut?

Daniel Landver: That's right. That's right.

Conor Begley: You can talk more broadly than just the DBP brands, but how many of these influencer or celebrity brands are licensed versus more equity partnerships, would you estimate?

Daniel Landver: So that's a really good question. I would say, I don't know how to break it down on a percentage basis. I'll give you a little perspective. So the two largest call them licensors or the two largest licensing companies that license out IP are Disney followed by Authentic Brands Group, and Authentic Brands Group owns maybe 50 brands, including Juicy Couture, and FRYE. And they partner with some great celebrities like David Beckham, and Shaquille O'Neil typically their model is licensing. Then there's partnerships like Jessica Alba in Honest, which is really not a partnership it's really a company she built with partners, and investors, and obviously has IPO and built a huge business. The reason it's hard to answer that question is because you don't really know as a consumer if this is built out from a partnership or a license and from a consumer perspective, it doesn't really matter. Does Rihanna own or license Fancy? When you're at Sephora, you just love the product and you love what it stands for. And she has great execution. Kylie Cosmetics, what model was it operating under before it got acquired? It's irrelevant to the consumer. It's relevant to Kylie, it's relevant to Rihanna and both of those variations can lead to a huge business and a huge success.

Conor Begley: Yeah. So talk to me about your time leading up to this role. And the other element, I think that's really interesting for me there is, for a company like DBA, Digital Brand Architects, which is historically just been like a talent manager. This has to be totally found revenue, found income, how impactful was it to their... Am I right DBA got acquired as well? Was it by UTA?

Daniel Landver: Correct. Correct.

Conor Begley: So this is three questions in one, which I always get in trouble for asking, but one, was your career up into that point first? What made DBA be like," This is the right opportunity?" And then third, I'd be curious how that now interacts with UTA who's obviously got a lot of talent under their umbrella and who probably has very much the same questions and ambitions? How is that now interacting with the parent company too?

Daniel Landver: All right. So, first part of that question is my background. So my background after graduating from college is I was running or started a jewelry and accessory company, licensing multiple brands and bringing them to retailers. So it taught me a lot about design development, the power of branding, the power of leveraging a brand. One of the brands we worked very closely with for many years was in fact Disney, which was a great education using I would call some of the most powerful IP in the marketplace and bringing it to massive or major retailers, different mass retailers. So I learned a lot over those 12 years at that business at the time I started and was working with my family and my cousin. Along the way, Raina Penchansky, who's the founder of DBA started DBA as a influencer back then blogger management agency or management company. And as the market evolved, Instagram blew up. They weren't really bloggers anymore. It became influencers now primarily called creators, influencers creators. Around 2015, me and DBA started talking about, we see how this creator economy is growing and we had the strong conviction and the strong belief that some of the talent that DBA managed were going to be the next major brands at retail, just based on the connection to their audience, the ability to connect to their audience, ability to get feedback from their audience we strongly saw that as a major opportunity. And this was before SKIMS, or KKW, or Kylie, or Huda some of these larger brands that came out of called influencer creator or social media landscape. So we started DBP in 2015 with that thought process. And in 2015, we were really early to the conversation and people didn't take that premise seriously. They were like," Oh well, she's a blogger. She's got a big Instagram following. So what? Maybe we'll pay her for a sponsorship, him or her for a sponsorship, but why would we take that seriously in terms of their ability to build their leverage or brand." Since then that thinking has completely changed and now everyone has seen how many successful brands there are at retail that have come out of social media and take that conversation much more seriously and that's been great for us. And I think we've been very fortunate to have learned from starting early, seeing that industry get born, come up and learn early on and make, so let's say make some mistakes. And now we're in I think a good position to support our clients in building their brands in a very meaningful way. And then yes, in 2019, early 2019 UTA acquired DBA. So now we're under a much larger UTA umbrella. UTA is an amazing company and their entertainment reach is across all verticals. They have a sports division, they have a gaming division, they have a huge entertainment division, a music division. They also have a digital division and internally they have a great ventures team that does a lot of the same work and we compliment each other very well. Me and DBP are very focused on partnering with creators and all work under that larger umbrella to build brands at retail.

Conor Begley: And that word at retail, I'd be curious, obviously, you said you had that big pivot in 2020 to like," Oh crap, we launched all these brands and there's no more retail." Or you have more brands coming up and there's no more retail. Do you still primarily do retailer influencer brand partnerships as a primary launch mechanism or have you taken more of a direct to consumer approach with any of the brands?

Daniel Landver: So both. So it's really both. Both are, let's say valuable and meaningful. It's really an omnichannel world now where you see all of the digitally native brands opening their own stores and also going into retail or selling to retail via wholesale channels. So I think a brand needs both to be successful. And I think the larger retailers, mass retailers, drug retailers, beauty retailers, apparel retailers also gain a lot of value by partnering with the creator brands because they're driving traffic to them. They're engaging, their audiences are engaging with them. So I think it's a very harmonious, mutually beneficial relationship.

Conor Begley: Yeah. It feels like it's a no- duh, like yeah, of course, that's what you want to do if you can do it, or at least that's a big part of the recipe for success. In terms of the categories, like drug, mass, this, that the other, are there particular categories that you've found are better for launching influencer brands and any that you like," We stay away from that." Whether it's the margin profile or whatever it is we just don't think that's a good category to launch brands in it.

Daniel Landver: So we don't look at it from a good or bad category. We look at it from authentic, engaging, unique idea. We don't do merch, it's a good way of looking at it. So merch is a good large business. The DBP almost does zero of it because we're just not in the business of putting a label on something and printing it and sending it out. We look at everything in terms of building a business via brands, building brands. And the only way to do that in a compelling way is to come up with something or come up with a product that's unique and the audience really connects to and is well executed, is high quality, is delivered in a timely, efficient, let's say inexpensive manner. It's about the whole customer experience. And you can do that in apparel, we look at SKIMS, SKIMS came up out of nowhere and it's a multi- billion dollar brand because it was really well thought through and really well executed. You could do that in beauty and you see many examples in the creator space in beauty, you can do that at home. We just launched an amazing rug collection with Amber Lewis and Loloi phenomenally successful. The Home Edit, which is in the home space, primarily focusing on organization products, its extremely successful across multiple retailers. We are prioritizing engaging unique, well priced high- quality products. And I think in any category, those are driving very positive results.

Conor Begley: For sure. I think having a unique perspective is important, that is aligned with that creator's own perspective. That's where it becomes really valuable. While we're on that topic, what are the criteria that you use to decide whether or not this is a good brand to launch? And then separately, what advice are you giving to creators about like," Hey, you're not ready yet." Or this is what you need to do to get there. What's the criteria for which you think it starts to make sense to consider launching a brand for a creator?

Daniel Landver: So via DBA, we're very fortunate that we meet creators in many cases early or on in their careers. DBA does a great job managing the talent they represent in terms of, they start with X number of followers and work with them for many years to build out their platform, their different media opportunities. And I like to meet with clients as early as possible and set the foundation and there's no expectation or pressure for me or for any creator that they have to have a brand. Not all creators need to be brands. You have to have the passion, the willingness to work hard. And essentially in some cases take away from what your core business may be. If you're a beauty influencer and you start your own brand, is that going to potentially take away from some sponsorships in those categories? Yeah, potentially it will. So you have to be willing to do that, and in some cases make those sacrifices for the bigger picture or the broader visions. And in some cases it's true that as talent or clients or creators grow, they get more comfortable with their audience, they hone their point of view, they find that unique value proposition that they stand for or a unique idea that they want to engage with or develop or solve a problem that doesn't have a solution on the market yet." Hey, I'm an expert in the beauty space. I rate a thousand products a month, but I've realized this is missing. I want to solve this problem." Is a really good way of approaching an opportunity. You could say that in any vertical or any category or," I'm such a passionate designer. I see you have this vision I want to bring into market and tap into my audience, do a poll, see what they think." There's a lot of tools. But I also on a pure tactical level it could take 18 to 24 months to launch a business so I like to plant those seasons, say," Listen, you don't need to do this, and you don't need to do this today. But just so you know, let's plant those seeds, let's put it on your radar. And I want you to be cognizant of the fact that if, and when you are ready to do this, it may take 18 months to bring to market. So please marinate on it, and whenever you're ready to discuss, we here at DBP are happy to brainstorm with you, help you figure out what the foundation for that business looks like, with the best structure for that business looks like, evaluate the pros and cons, multiple approaches for that business and eventually help you bring it to market." And make it successful. There's a huge commitment of time and resources so you want to have a successful outcome.

Conor Begley: Yeah. And it's got to be tough to plan 18 to 24 months in advance when some of the times these things move really quickly. It's a weird story, but I ordered a trash can. It was a simple human, really nice trash can, $250 trash can, the nicest one they have. And ordered it, and actually ordered it to my old address in San Francisco. And I was like," I don't know how I'm going to get this thing, whatever." So I get a LinkedIn message two weeks later from the woman who lives there now. And we went to the same university, turns out she's a beauty influencer. She's actually a saw software engineer in our industry. And had actually reached out about getting a job at our company, which is crazy. And she's like," Oh, we should meet up. I'd love to exchange notes." And she just graduated a couple of years ago. And so went to San Francisco to get the trash can, but also exchanged notes. And she launched a year ago her channel, she now has 250,000 on TikTok and 100, 000 on Instagram, which is fast and she's not a celebrity. She just hit specific angles. She got this one hashtag going called #browngirlmakeup, and it's done really well. And she recently switched to a new job. And so I was asking her," Well, why didn't you go creator full- time? You're taken off here." She's earning as much income from that as she was from being a software engineer. And she's like," The problem is, I feel like I'm actually going to age out, I'm going to age out of being a creator. I basically age out of my audience." So it sounds like a really difficult problem to plan. And she's talking about launching a beauty brand to plan out 18 to 24 months when things are moving in that fluid in that liquid. So anyway it's just commentary, not crosstalk.

Daniel Landver: No, I agree. And everyone wants to move fast and be scrappy and there are ways to cut that timeline. When I say 18 to 24 months, it's more of like a guideline that maybe you're not ready today to start but think about where you want to be two years from now and what that goal is and how you're getting to that goal. It's not really you need two years to develop one skew, but you really need to envision your future. What's a three to five- year plan and plant those seeds. And if your content is food or kitchen oriented and you want to develop a knife line, or pots and pans, make sure your content supports that future vision, whatever that may be in some sense. And you always want to be authentic and being authentic is that the content you're creating and the audience is really engaged with that. And that's, I think what drives that growth or following. So it's really just thinking about the long term and planting those seeds, but it does take a long time; branding, IP, trademarking, logo development, legal for any partnerships, product developments. A lot of people for good reason don't want to slap their name on an existing pre- made item. They want something that's really unique. They want a special formula. They want a special design and all that takes more time and care to bring to market.

Conor Begley: It's one of the most frustrating things about launching a new product. We're launching a new product for the influencers and it's like," Oh my God, it takes so long, it's like I forgot how long it takes to get a computer brand or product going.

Daniel Landver: But if you rush it it undermines your reputation, all you have is delivering to your audience and you don't want your audience coming back to you and saying," Oh, I got this and it's horrible." And then they don't trust you anymore. Breaking that trust is not an option. It's just valuing that trust with your audience and giving them something that they will be so proud of or so connected to is really, I think most creators' goals. I can't even think of an exception of anyone who said otherwise.

Conor Begley: I think it was an executive at CAA or somewhere that they were talking about. They're like," Yeah, you get about a half dozen to maybe a dozen collaborations." They're like," And you get like one or two, maybe three brands, that's it." And if you really blow it on the first one or two, you lose a lot of your trust and it's just going to be tough to get that back and so it aligns with what you're saying there, I think.

Daniel Landver: Yeah. And there are ways to get into the brand space and primarily doing that through collaborations. And I think that's a really effective method for creators, especially earlier on in their careers or as their audience and let's say following is growing in the... Collaboration is basically designing unique skews within existing brand. So it's Connor X brand, or Connor X retailer, and it's a two- way street, you're promoting their brand. They're giving you the ability to design and put your name on something unique and you help each other by in some sense cross- promoting. And I think it also gives the talent, or the creator, the ability to see if they like that process. Do I like making beauty, or apparel, or food, or a home, maybe I didn't like that process, or maybe I didn't enjoy it for this reason, or I love that so much. And then most importantly, you create engaging content, you benefit both sides and you see how the customers respond. So again, we just did a deal or partnership with the same interior designer I spoke about earlier, Amber Lewis and Anthropologie. It's a great relationship. Anthro is very happy. Amber is very happy and she's designing a furniture line and in other circumstances may not have been able to. So it works out very well for both. So collaboration's a good, very good first step in many cases. And then that's a good small as pilot for building your brands.

Conor Begley: For sure. For sure. So last question, and then we'll get one fun end of show question. So one of the other things that Monica, and so Monica is the creator that's grown very quickly through #browngirlmakeup. She's like," Oh, have you heard of this platform? It helps creators launch new beauty brands, it's all online and you can do some custom work and design it, whatever." That aside, I don't remember the name of the platform. It seems like there's a running joke internally. If there's one more celebrity skincare brand, I'm going to lose it because at Tribe we have to track all these guys. So we're constantly tracking them all down. So do you think it's hit a saturation point when it comes to launching new brands? Have you found that it was easier early on it's become a lot more difficult, a lot more crowded or is it more just," Hey, you just have to have a real perspective and have a real differentiation in the market." Where do you think it's at in terms of these new brand launches? Does it still make a lot of sense?

Daniel Landver: So it is very saturated and I've spoken to a lot of big, let's say retailers and manufacturers in the space and they're saying every A- list celebrity is calling me and wants to throw their hat in the ring and do a beauty line, or a cosmetic line, or a skincare line. And they call, and they say," I'm representing this A- lister and they want to do something with you." And they say," Okay, great. What do you want to do?" And they're like," Oh, whatever, we don't know. We just want do something." That doesn't work. So regardless of who that large creator A- lister is, it's not going to work if it's not authentic, if it's not what they stand for, if it's not well executed. So I think it is harder to stand out because there are many good brands at retail, but I don't think it's just amongst the creator community. I think all categories are saturated and you just have to every brand, either coming from a digitally native background, or a creator/ celebrity background, or any type of independent background has to deliver on quality, on price, on experience. In the case of a creator brand, you have to deliver all three of those value propositions and then bring your audience along with you for the opportunity.

Conor Begley: Yeah, I think you mentioned the point earlier about they're putting their own reputation on the line, and I think they have to really think about it that way because if you're flipping about it or you're not really into it, it ultimately hurts your credibility. And so yeah, now it makes a lot of sense. Okay. Fun, end of show last question. So if you, Daniel Landver had to launch a new brand, what brand would that be? What category maybe we'll say? What's authentic to your true self Daniel?

Daniel Landver: Food. I would love to do something fun in the food space. I enjoy eating out, I enjoy dining, I enjoy cooking. I would love do something in the food space. And I think there's a lot of interesting things happening in the food space. I think fashion and beauty are mature in the creator space in terms of brands at market and have some great brands at market that have grown exponentially over the last five years. I think categories, I still have a lot of room for growth. I think home has grown a lot also in the last two years, especially since COVID is food and kitchen. I would love to create food brand. We're actually working on a food brand that I think is really interesting. So I'll tell you more about that as it comes to fruition.

Conor Begley: That's awesome. Yeah. I too am a big fan of food, so that would be good for me. Probably food, either that or beer or whiskey, probably beer, something beer really.

Daniel Landver: But you can see now there's a lot of virtual brands. There's Goop Kitchen. There's MrBeast Burgers, a lot of let's say celebrities or creators or influencers are also going in the food space and doing quite well. And I think you'll see a lot more of that coming up in the future.

Conor Begley: I'm amazed there hasn't been any celebrity led beer brands. You know what I mean? Like I feel like there's actually a gap there and it would be aligned with a lot of creators, probably mostly male creators, but generally would be aligned with a lot of them. I don't know.

Daniel Landver: It's a good idea.

Conor Begley: Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking about it. I know all of these independent, fast growing big outcome beers, but none of them are aligned with any talent.

Daniel Landver: Well, Fat Jewish did Rose a few years ago and I'm pretty sure he sold that. That did well. That was Rose it's an alcohol inaudible, there's some alcohol or Seltzer. There's the Nelk guys or Nelk bros are doing Hard Seltzer, which is doing apparently phenomenally well. So I think alcohol is definitely a great space.

Conor Begley: Well, there's Teremana with The Rock, which is just a rocking ship.

Daniel Landver: Drug or not. Yeah. Which is just massive. All right, beer is next, Conor, we're going to do something in the beer space.

Conor Begley: Let's do something in beer. I just have to get famous first and then we'll do something in beer.

Daniel Landver: That's right.

Conor Begley: Well, I really appreciate you taking out the time today. I know I learned a lot. I know other people have learned a lot. I could have asked 50 more questions, but we'll cut it here and I really appreciate it. Thanks so much, Daniel.

Daniel Landver: My pleasure. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this as well.

Conor Begley: For sure. Bye. Bye guys.

Speaker 2: Hit subscribe now, Earned by Tribe Dynamics. Tribe Dynamics unlocks your social media influencer community. Our platform not only tracks and measures your best influencer relationships but discovers new influencers to grow your business through Earned media. Get started with a demo today @ tribedynamics. com. Tribedynamics. com.